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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 4, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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tonight on "all in" -- >> i have signed the pledge. >> trump promises he won't run as an independent candidate at a positively surreal news conference in new york. >> do they like me in indonesia? >> yes. thank you very much. >> then bernie sanders hits iowa as joe biden stokes 2016 speculation in florida and georgia. plus, jail time for the kentucky clerk who wouldn't marry same-sex couples. upon further review a judge throws out tom brady's suspension and pats nation rejoices. "all in" starts right now. >> good evening. from new york i'm chris hayes. it's official. donald trump is formally, more or less, at least for the moment a loyal republican. as the only candidate on the debate stage who wouldn't rule out a third party run he met with reince priebus at trump
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tower at a press conference i attended this afternoon. my first up close experience for the trump show he made a big announcement. >> the best way for the republicans to win is if i win the nomination and go directly against whoever they happen to put up. for that reason, i have signed the pledge. so i will be totally pledging my allegiance to the republican party and the conservative principles for which it stands. and we will go out and we will fight hard. and we will win. >> there was a snag with the official pledge document in which trump vows to back the nominee. it's dated august 3rd as rick perry would say -- oops. fortunately there was a corrected copy and all is right with the world. this as jeb bush intensifies his
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attacks on the republican front runner and bush is shown falling behind while ben carson and ted cruz continue to gain ground. for the first time in the campaign that anti-establishment block of trump, carson and cruz has accumulative majority in the total of 51.8%. ladies and gentlemen, your republican primary. i got to see first hand, up close, the trump show in all its bizarre and surreal, gory -- if you call it that -- ignominy. for a guy with a reputation as a straight talker who shoots from the hip and answers questions he's relentlessly on message. it doesn't matter what you ask. you get back one of five answers as i learned when i asked the first question at the press conference trying to get him to explain why anyone should believe he'll stand by this pledge. >> you bragged in the past about how when it suits you you have used bankruptcy laws, joked to
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the audience in alabama about taking lobbyist money and screwing them over afterwards. why would anyone think this pledge means anything? >> this is a self-funded campaign. we have our heart and soul in it. i don't need money. i don't want money. this is going to be a campaign like i think no other. >> make america great again. the scene was surreal. there was a crowd outside and inside. largely the kind of crowd that's attracted by the crowd that you sometimes see in midtown. up near the front young, well put together people of men in suits part of an indonesian legislative delegation standing next to each other holding the silent majority stands with trump signs. the silent majority young fashionable new yorkers and indonesian legislators, one of whom would get a shout out later on. >> ladies and gentlemen, this is a very -- an amazing man.
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as you know, he's speaker of the house of indonesia. he's here to see me. setya novatno one of the most powerful men and a great man. we will do great things for the united states. correct? >> yes. >> do they like me in indonesia? speaker of the house in indonesia. >> what's the dude going to say in that situation? no, they don't like you. they have never heard of you. they liked your show. they handed out this packet to the press. the silent majority stands with trump. that's a press packet. i thought policy makers, position, articles. no, no. entirely filled with polls. the whole thing. and polls that look like they were designed by your mom on printshop in 1998 and copied at kinko's before a deadline. random screen shots like this
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one of john king in front of the big board. there is a rachel maddowle full screen. trump would refer to the documents that were passed out. >> i have thousands of hispanics right now working for me. over the years i have employed tens of thousands of hispanics. many from mexico. in the packets we gave you, you will see there is a poll. i'm number one with hispanics. you saw that. number one with hispanics. >> number one. i have that poll. right here. it's blurry. from public policy polling, a polling firm. the numbers add up to more than 100% because they are favorability ratings not
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support. trump's favorability is 30 points under water. two-thirds of the poll don't like him. don't really like any over people in the field other. the people surveyed were registered voters who self-identified as hispanics. they talked in july about trump's continued misuse of the results saying, quote, several other republicans do better head to head against clinton with hispanics than trump does. it's a novel interpretation of poll results. on the whole his numbers with minorities are terrible. joining me gabe sherman from new york magazine. i seriously -- there were moments when i was like, am i being pranked? is this a joke. sometimes they make viral videos with a fake store and they record it. it was like that for campaign reporters. is there a camera on me to see? i cannot believe this is real.
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>> that was the whole time i spent with him last year when i ended up going to his compound in florida. it felt like it was all a cartoon in some weird way. it's very surreal. what's interesting is the way trump commands it all. it's a world of his own making and he occupied it fully and commandingly. you just buy into it. you can see how he's sucked so many republican voters to him in that way. >> it felt like a camp movies hollywood version of a presidential campaign. >> my favorite part is reince priebus had to go to trump tower. the optics of that. >> amazing. >> walking into trump tower essentially to do trump's bidding. just the power dynamics there alone are fascinating. >> i have heard speculation from sources that this was all engineered by reince priebus to make the rnc look good and on top of things and that they are actually in control.
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it doesn't look that way. reince priebus has to go kiss his ring at his eponymous skyscraper. >> he says things i think are funny and then there is something ugly here. let me give you an example. there was a protest about people protesting his comments on immigration. people dressed as kkk people saying make america racist again. that's coming right at him. this isn't a guy who shirks from this. one of the security guards took a sign from a man and this ensues. take a look. sign back. he's grabbing onto him. he gets cold-cocked in the head. so that was the scene today after the bizarre, surreal and somewhat humorous events went down. that's on a public sidewalk.
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just a straight-up punch in the face. you know who that guy is. >> that's his personal body guard who's been with him a long time. he was a former nypd tekt. i spent time with him. what's interesting is he struck me out of all -- >> what's the name? >> keith schiiler. out of donald trump's yes men, aides he struck me as the mostle loyal. he really, really wants to protect donald trump. and, remember, donald trump surrounds himself with people who try to imitate him. who try to inhabit his persona. this is the ugly side of it. >> am i mistaken that's the guy that threw out jorge ramos? >> i think so. >> we remember when he was asked why he threw him out, trump said, i don't know. the security came, as if he didn't know who the dude was. >> as much as trump pledged to back the eventual nominee, the other candidates in the race have essentially pledged to back him.
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if he somehow emerges as a nominee, jeb bush on down have to back donald trump. that's a reckoning that the republican party hasn't grappled with. they have committed to backing donald trump. >> this is the point jonathan made the oh day. he said, look, the problem for republicans is one of two options. he bolts and runs third party which is electoral doom. or you embrace him and say he's a republican. can we show the approval among latino voters? it's true. jeb bush is 31%. marco rubio, 29%. those are disastrous numbers and that's the problem. we have footage now of his body guard punching who appears to be a latino man, cold cocking him in the head after the event. >> your question was right. this pledge doesn't mean anything in terms of, you know,
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donald trump's word is not stronger than oak. there are reasons for him to sign it. one of the big ones -- right after the fox news debate, one of the only things, arguably the only thing that seriously brought unfavorable opinions from republican voters if you looked at focus groups and talked to voters and polls was his inability to commit to endorsing the eventually nominee. >> this neutralizes an attack line going into the cnn debate this month where he can say i signed the pledge. that's off the table. >> the key attack against him will be, as we get further on, if you vote for this guy he will get creamed by hillary. that's going to be the attack. that was the line against howard dean in 2004. it wasn't like, i don't care how you feel about this guy. if he's the nominee he will lose to bush. that's a persuasive argument with people who are fairly savvy if they are voting in a primary. the question is whether it will work.
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you have the carson, cruz, trump caucus now above 51%. >> in iowa and new hampshire, trump is polling higher than the establishment candidates combined. it's incredible. >> as you can find out from the packet of blurry screen grabs we were given today. thank you very much. still to come we have learned a lot about donald trump this election season. he's a man of many passions. plus, how the kentucky county clerk that refused to give same-sex couples marriage licenses is a litmus test for hopefuls trying to claw their way into trump's shadow. and sure the over turned victory for tom brady but how the unions won as well. those stories and more ahead.
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up next the presidential candidates coming to the defense of the kentucky court clerk refusing marriage licenses for same sex couples. we are not sure where donald trump stands but he has a lot of love to give.
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♪ >> love. >> tune what i love? tea party. big. i love tea party. i love the tea party! where are the children? >> they are off to the side here. >> get them over here. that's great. i love children. i love iowa. i love you people. i love iowa. i love florida. i love nashville. i love this country. i love my kids. come here. i love meeting the people. i love the people. i love people. i love the people of mexico. i love the hispanics. nobody loves hispanics like i do. by the way, i love mexican people. i love china. i love the people of china. just like in mexico. i love the people. people said i don't like mexico. i love mexico. whether it's japan, mexico, china. i love them. and now the asians hate him. it's true. but the asians love me. and i love them.
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do they like me in indonesia? >> yes. >> i love the "new york times." oh, look. give me that book. i love that book. >> oreos, right? i love them. israel, i love israel. [ cheers and applause ] >> you saw that. i love the bible. >> i love the bible. i love the bible. but i love the bible. you hated to leave church, evangelicals. i love the evangelicals. i love them. they love me. they do. why do they love me? you will have to ask them. kanye west. i will never say bad about him. he loves trump. i love him. maybe in a few years i have to run against him. i'll take it back. and ladders. sfx: [screams] they have all those warnings on 'em. might as well say... 'you're gonna die, jeff.'
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a group of republican presidential candidates desperate for attention in the summer of trump took a stand against the rule of law rallying behind rowan county clerk kim davis in kentucky who in defiance of a court order refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples and was jailed for willful disobedience until she agrees to comply. seen today with supporters clashing with those supporting davis who cited religious beliefs to refuse marriage licenses to same sex couples. >> we are not giving licenses today. >> why? >> we are pending appeal. >> under whose authority. >> under god's authority. >> by same sex and opposite sex couples refusing to issue licenses after bans were struck
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down in june. >> we are not leaving without a license. >> then you're going to have a long day. >> we'll call the police. i will ask them to arrest you. >> do your job. >> call the police. call the police. >> do your job! >> you should be ashamed of yous. everyone in this office should be ashamed. >> faced with possible jail time five clerks said they will comply with the order to issue marriage licenses starting tomorrow morning. davis's lawyer said the county clerk has no intention of backing down. >> kim davis may be behind bars for now. her conscious is unshackled. she's a free come woman. she won't violate her conscience. she can't violate who she is and the god whom she serves. >> mike huckabee and ted cruz jumped at the chance to support davis. cruz raising the specter of
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judicial tier any and claiming those who are persecuting davis believes christians should not serve in public office. huckabee vowed to stand with davis and said we must end the criminalzation of christianity. rand paul said it is absurd to put somebody in jail. for exercising religious liberty. she was put in jail for defying a court order. that puts them in league with former alabama fwov nor george wallace who refused to integrate alabama schools despite court orders and who history, to put it mildly, has not judged kindly. joining me now josh barro from the "new york times." should she be in jail? >> yeah. the judge is a george w. bush appointee said if you let people pick and choose which court orders to obey that leads you to a bad place. there weren't many remedies available.
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he could put her in jail or fine her. she has supporters who would line up to pay fines. that's not likely an effective way to compel compliance. he can't fire her. people on twitter are saying why not fire her? a federal judge cannot fire her. >> she's elected. but the federal courts cannot say someone elected by the people locally is no longer in office. >> right. the only way she can be remove sd by the legislature which is not in session. the governor won't call a special session. the only way the federal judge has available to cause the order to be obeyed is put her in jail. the optics aren't great. >> what do you mean? >> that's the thing i have seen people say. we are going to make her a martyr. bad idea. >> there is something to it. >> i think there is a sense among social conservatives that they are oppressed, not allowed to follow what they consider to be their sincere religious beliefs.
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she could resign her job and would not have to issue anybody a marriage license. >> which is a solution that's a correct solution. >> losing your job is a significant hardship in your life. she would like to be the county clerk and not issue gay marriage licenses. that's not allowed by the court. i can understand why she would want that. i think it's key to note it's not the judge's job to think about good optics for supporters of marriage equality. his job is to get his court orders obeyed. this is the recommend ti available. >> one thing that occurred to me is in some ways we made the comparison to george wallace and the campaign called massive resistance throughout the south for years in defiance of desegregation. there was a question about how much resistance we'd see. we are focused on one person in one county going to jail for a few days and we don't know how long it will be says to me it's kind of the dog that didn't
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bark. >> yeah. it's rare. there have been counts of, you know, two or three counties in states. most of the states that were the last state where is gay marriage was legalized. i would note this stuff could keep popping up in the future. buzzfeed called to counties in texas and got some county with 2,000 residents and the clerk said do you know marriage licenses we issue in a year? two or three. the purely theoretical question what would happen if somebody came in seeking a gay marriage license. we can see what happens with that down the road. there is a broader discussion about an opt out for social conservatives. plan a was to impose a rule against gay marriage and when both public opinion and the courts fell away there is an evident to carve out a space to live in an anti-gay society within a place where the norms and laws will be pro gay. the questions are what are the terms of the opt out.
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one question is will government employees be able to keep their jobs and never be required to do things on gay marriage that they were opposed to. we saw north carolina pass a law saying individual government employees can't be required to issue gay marriage licenses. somebody still has to issue the license. not like in kentucky where the employee can block anybody from issuing it. this is a live political question. >> yep. >> the big question now is this a turning point, will people rally to her and it gets bigger or a dead end action. i would bet on the latter. josh barro thank you. how one horrifying image may have awoken the world to the refugee crisis in europe. that's ahead. that's not the ground leo put that down when your day goes on and on, you need 48 hour odor protection that goes on clear for no white marks. secret outlast clear gel.
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the fact there was no more space did nothing to stop those struggling to reach the train doors. children were passed overheads. and then through windows. others waited patiently, bewildered and confused. >> it's the worst refugee crisis in europe since the second world war. footage today showing refugees and migrants desperate to board a train they hoped was bound for germany. the train was later stopped by police and the people on board told they were neither going to germany nor austria. at one point a migrant family laid down on the tracks in protest when they were told they would be transferred to a hungarian refugee camp.
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some families were ultimately allowed to reboard that train but it is unclear whether it was going to resume course. all of the people appear in limbo, still waiting. that's just one of the heart wrenching scenes out of one of the epicenters of a crisis involving hundreds of thousands of people from libya, nigeria fleeing war and poverty which has become a political crisis in europe as countries fight over what to do and who should take responsibility. that's no longer limited to the main land europe. in britain the picture of this drowned syrian kurdish boy galvanized a call to action. the british prime agreed to allow more syrian refugees into the country. the number not yet finalized. canada finds itself under scrutiny after the remaining family said they applied for and were denied asylum in canada. they have no report of that says canada. the kurdi family was from kobani where the kurds made a
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courageous stand against isis in syria and here is what the city looked like before the war and what it looks like now. again, before and after. the question is what would make a family risk their lives to flee to another country? this is the answer. a question of what other nations should be doing applies to every wealthy nation from england to canada to the u.s. joining me now congressman joaquin castro from texas. as someone whose mother came to this country who comes from people who move one place to another. what is your reaction to watching this unfold in europe? >> sure. my grandmother came in 1922 as a young orphan. the images coming out of europe are just absolutely heartbreaking. many of them shock the conscience. the image of the 3-year-old boy who died off the turkish coast and that soldier carrying his body, that was on the front page of so many newspapers today.
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i've got to imagine it played a part in the uk changing its tone and accepting -- agreeing to accept more refugees. the united states and canada should follow suit. >> let's press on that. we saw what happened politically in this country when there was a wave of arguably refugees or migrants from central america, many of them children, many of them women. people freaked out. >> right. >> should -- >> yeah. there is no question. the politics are very difficult. even last summer before donald trump started stoking fears about an invasion of immigrants the politics were tough even a year ago when 68,000 migrants, most of them women and children came from central america. this is where the politics and the political tone makes a difference. donald trump in the united
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states politics makes it harder if for the united states government and leaders to accept more refugees which i think morally they should. >> there is a real -- there is leadership here that can be provided that 14 senators wrote a letter this year saying we should take more. we took a thousand syrian refugees last year. looks like 8,000 in the coming year. how many shouldle we be taking and who -- are you going to call for us to take more? >> oh, absolutely. consider it as part of the call. i think of course congress has been out of session since july 30, at least the house of representatives has been. but as soon as we get back on september 8, i believe that we should have hearings on this. i think many of us will take action. i think the united states should step up and take a stronger role in accepting thousands of these refugees. you know, when we think of a refugee today, part of the challenge for the country is
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that we are still thinking of people who are fleeing communist dictators in the '60s and '70s. you think about the thousands of cubans who came fleeing fidel castro and the vietnamese who came after the vietnam war. you know, in our minds we think of people fleeing these communist dictators, but really the situation around the world has changed a lot since then. that's very obvious. i don't know that it's made it into our consciousness. >> you talk about the political context. one thing that occurred to me is one thing you hear from people on the other side of the debate is, look, we love legal immigration. we don't like illegal immigration. this is an opportunity, it seems to me to call the bluff and say, look, let's legally expand the number of refugees we are taking, put in process to bring people, resettle them. we'll know who they are. this is not just people coming willie nilly. let's step up and take more people.
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>> i think that's absolutely right. another part of the debate that we get into when you have refugees from the middle east, for example, is the stringent security protocols that they have to go through to be allowed refugee status in this country. there has been a push-back to allowing thousands of people to come here from the middle east because of that. you know, there are fbi checks, homeland security checks and so on. i expect that will be part of the debate in the coming weeks. >> congressman castro, thank you very much. we'll be right back.
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right now bernie sanders just started speaking at a campaign event in burlington, iowa. he continues to draw huge numbers of people to events across the country, even having to change venues this week because of riding crowd
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estimates according to his campaign. two polls put him ahead of hillary clinton in new hampshire. another one put him within striking distance in iowa trailing clinton by seven points. a poll yesterday found him further behind. his growing popularity has been used often as a sharp contrast to the former secretary of state. headlines screamed of her under water favorability numbers and those desperate to construct a narrative of a clinton free fall and a steady stream of e-mail stories. >> this is yet another blow to the clinton campaign. her former staffer brian pagliano who helped set up the server for the private e-mail account is refusing to answer questions about the e-mails before congressional committee. >> that staffer was subpoenaed by house committee investigating benghazi, the same committee that called cheryl mills to testify behind closed doors rejecting the request to make
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testimony public. clinton's campaign argued that clinton's 20-point lead puts her in a good position. hanging over everything is joe biden who has been stoking interest, potential 2016 run. right now he's at a synagogue in atlanta, georgia. after making public appearances biden didn't address 2016 speculation but it has reached a fevered pitch so even donald trump was asked to weigh in. >> i think maybe he's inclined not to. i think it will depend what happens with hillary clinton. a lot of people think she will not be able to make it legally from a criminal standpoint to the starting gate. i don't know that to be true. it depends on what happens with her. i think if she gets out he will get in. if she stays in he might not. who knows? >> i'm no fortune teller but hillary clinton is not going to
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get out. joining me now joy reed. we have a strange situation. sanders has this momentum. that's a guy that's been campaigning all day. [ cheers and applause ] >> this campaign is about bringing people together. it's about telling the 60% of americans who did not vote last november that by not voting they are dishonoring their own kids and their own parents. >> you can hear the hoarseness in his voice. he's got on the stump.
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the question is what's the path forward? >> yeah. >> what do you think? >> it's interesting. it's a multi dimensional chess you have. the bernie people are devoted. they are a mix of the occupy wall street anger at wall street and the banks and younger, few newer to the game. people sick of politics as usual. my daughter likes bernie sanders because he talk s about going after the banks and make college affordable. he's been in washington for 30 years, but they are devoted. they will stay there. these are people who at the end of the day would vote for hillary clinton were she the nominee. >> right. >> then you have the hillary crowd. iowa is a more liberal state. people take their politics seriously. the hillary people were by and large women over 50 who are very much about getting a woman in
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the white house. and the hillary people are also tie hard. i think we under estimate it in the media because there is a media sheudenfreud that the media wants them to go down. >> this is important. it's a missing part of the story about hillary clinton's campaign which is a collective atmosphere, collective yawn you get about the clintons or whatever you think of hillary clinton as a candidate, put it aside. there are a lot of people in this country who are devoted die hard fans of hillary clinton and want nothing more than to see her elected president. >> in back in 2008 there were women who were hillary supporters vowing not to vote for barack obama and to become republicans if she didn't get on the ticket. there are still people out there. there are other little pieces
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that are in the puzzle which we in the media don't pay attention to. there are people from 2008le who hold a grudge against the clintons. particularly african-americans. particularly african-american women who aren't ready to embrace hillary and that's a problem. >> my own reporting and conversations encountered that same thing. at the same time if you look at polling she's doing well with people of color. the things bernie sanders has to figure out, he has no word with voters of color. if you show joe biden who's doing a tour of american jewish centers, synagogues, talking to the jewish community about the iran vote, you just covered him down in florida. what was it like? here you are doing a routine event but routine under the frison that he might get in the race. >> these were planned before. not a mystical thing. he had fund-raisers planned
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weeks ago. debbie wasserman schultz invited him. i didn't get a sense of biden on the ground. obama people love him. they want him. >> that's where things are interesting. joy reid thanks for your reporting. >> thank you. >> still ahead sh patriots nation celebrates as tom brady's suspension is overturned in another loss for nfl commissioner roger goodell and perhaps a win for working men and women. i will explain.
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one of the things i'm honored about is so far everybody that's attacked me has gone down the tubes. perry attacked me. he's out of the race now. he was at 4 or 5%. >> donald trump just offhandedly today declaring that former texas rick perry is now out of running for president after perry lost his staff in new hampshire. his political director in that
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state yesterday and perry's team in iowa is down to one paid staffer while in south carolina perry staffers were kicked off the payroll and asked to continue working for free. perry insists today he's still in the race while epitomizing why his candidacy is on the rocks. >> is donald trump right? are you getting out of the race? >> a broken clock is right once a day. i'm still here and still working. >> fool me once, shame on you -- can't fooled today. we'll be right back.
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huge victory today for tom brady and patriots nation as a federal judge over turned the four-game suspension of the new england patriots quarterback over the deflategate scandal. the base of the ruling seems to be the commissioner didn't treat tom brady fairly. back in may the nfl announced brady would be sus pentded for four games following an investigation that said based on the evidence it is more probable than not that tom brady was at
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least generally aware of the inappropriate activities including the release of air from patriots game balls. at this time a future presidential candidate made it clear whose side he was on. >> if i were brady sue the nfl for defamation. $250 million, tom. sue them. their head will spin. >> the players union decided to fight through the court system. judge berman wrote you can't suspend a person because he may have been generally aware of wrongdoing writing no nfl policy or precedent notifies players they could be disciplined or suspended for general awareness of others. this seemed to question fwoo dell's understanding of the collective bargaining agreement and said the power to punish players isn't unlimited. there is great celebration including at one dunkin donuts where judge berman never has to play for another coolatta.
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the controversy isn't over. joining me now sports editor
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joining me now sports editor from the nation, also host of sports on sirius xm. dave, i'm conflicted. i'm cross pressured. >> yeah. >> i'm a staunch labor guy. i like collective bargaining agreements. i like an employee taking his
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employer to court and winning. on the other hand, it's tom brady. i'm not part of pats nation. guide me about how to feel. >> okay. let me explain like this. the highlight of my day was amidst the social media celebration in patriots nation was seeing all of them visibly recoil off of twitter when they realized donald trump was on their side and was supporting tom brady. >> what am i supposed to do with that. >> we have to understand with the workers always, with tom brady sometimes is a good philosophy going forward. one thing about donald trump, say what you will about him, he doesn't like being associated with losers. one thing roger goodell is and all of the bosses who put their trust in roger goodell in the national football league, this is a losing horse and a losing proposition. this is the fifth straight court case that the owners lost as
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roger goodell led them to court. yet this case is different from the others. the new orleans saints, adrian peterson, ray rice. at least roger goodell could say, i'm on the side of rice, on the side of cleaning up the league at dim-witted as it was it was a line he could sell to owners, the public and corporate partners. all you can sell in this case is i make george w. bush look like disraeli. >> it's been hard to understand the logic from the beginning. the conspiracy theorists said, look, kraft is buddies with goodell, one of his close friends. if you were to pick one person who is the face of the nfl it's tom brady, right? the guy is a superstar, model handsome, married to a model. five-time super bowl winner.
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this guy is everything. four, five times? >> yeah. also let's not forget white as the driven snow in a majority black league that they are selling to a majority white audience. the thing about tom brady is he's like dorian gray. somewhere there is a picture of a decaying soul but he gets more handsome every today. >> why pick this fight? >> that's the thing. >> why this fight? >> it makes sense. if you understand it, less of a battle between labor and the nfl ownership and more as a battle in between owners. the new england patriots were one of the lowest valued franchises in the national football league. today they are second only to the dallas cowboys. there are a lot of nfl owners who feel robert kraft and the patriots have gotten rich by skirting the rules whether it was spygate, fudging injury reports, bill belichick and all
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the various machinations other owners feel he does. a lot of owners feel because of craft's cozy relationship with goodell that robert kraft is rich on their time. a lot of owners said, hey, dude, you make $40 million a year because of us not bob kraft. go after him for the deflating of the football thing. they wanted to take a shot and puncture the patriots' balloon. >> it is a thing where there is this reactionary phrase where they talk about the court system, he got off on a technicality meant to be like obviously the guy is guilty but the constitution got in the way. i have to say i feel that way about this. it really does seem like they were up to no good. and they didn't essentially have the evidence procedurally to nail them. i respect that because i respect process and labor law and collective bargaining agreement. i'm left feeling they probably
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were doing this. >> part of the problem is there is a huge gap between what we originally thought about this and what we now know is the truth. i remember coming on your show and said they should have to vacate it. there was a report by espn that ten of the 11 footballs were deflated. that was a shocking number. like, whoa. that looks like a systemic effort to fwan the game. now we know it was one or two and the variance can be explained by barometric pressure. roger goodell overshot on this thinking bob kraft and tom brady would go along for the ride and play ball because brady is the face of the league and the rest of it and seemed to have a lot to lose by fighting back. i will say this for tom brady and i know it from talking to the players association.
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he at any time want to go down as the person who made it labor press tent in the nfl to hand over your personal cell phone. he didn't want to be that guy. that's something to say. >> he fought the law and the law didn't win. >> that's true. >> the law did win in his favor. dave, thanks. >> final thoughts. remember this when you hear about how the evil teachers' unions won't let us fire the bad teachers i.'s the same process that ensures people get a fair hearing that keeps tom brady and keeps those teachers. tomorrow i will be joined by donald trump's former top adviser roger stone and the protester who was knocked in the head outside trump's press conference today. that's tomorrow night. right now time for the rachel maddow show. >> as hard as it is to hear you throw shade atom brady i want to talk about something else.
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are you hanging around a little bit? >> i will. >> thank you. i forgive you already about tom brady. see you later. thanks for staying with us this hour. spare a thought for the man who just finished serving 14 years as the governor of the great state of texas. poor rick perry. rick perry is down and out in american politics right now. for some reason even though he poses no threat to anyone. i mean anybody else in the presidential race punching at rick perry by testify in addition is punching down. he's the basement. rick perry should be immune from criticism now because of his own irrelevance in the race. he's that far down and out but for some reason rick perry is still in a position where he finds himself still getting kicked. the other candidatesd

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